A few years ago, Miss Grand Netherlands 2013, Talisa Wolters told us that she had met Miss Holland 1996, Marja de Graaf and that she would love to be interviewed by us.
Well it took some time but here they are. Marja de Graaf became Miss Holland in 1996 and represented our country at the Miss Universe pageant the same year.
Who was Marja de Graaf in 1996?
A very happy, somewhat rebellious, fun, smart, naive and adventurous 19 year old girl, who was living her best life in the United States, where we moved as a family in 1994. I had a great group of international friends, and was having lots of fun with them, while studying International Business Management. I knew intuitively that a traditional business career was not something I wanted to pursue, but I was too young to know what else I might like or be good at. So I was just living in the moment and enjoying life, trusting that some day I would figure it out.
Who is Marja de Graaf in 2025?
A very happy, relaxed, wise(r), balanced, but still adventurous 48 year old woman, who has been through a lot, but came out stronger and is living her best life again.
I live in a beautiful village just east of Amsterdam, called Muiderberg, with my husband Erik of 10 years (been together for 17 years) and our 2 dogs and 2 cats.
We tried to have children for 6,5 years, but unfortunately I entered early menopause when I was only 34. We did a whole bunch of IUI and IVF treatments in Germany and Belgium and even tried egg donation, but it turned out to be too late. I got pregnant once, but I miscarried at 8 weeks. Of course these were very challenging years and it has taken me a while to recover physically and emotionally. But Erik and I are very happy with our animals and with each other and we have fully healed from this journey. And as many challenges in life do, our infertility journey has made us stronger both as a couple and as individuals.
I have been working in tv as a producer/reporter for almost 25 years now, but I also have my own practice as a lifestyle coach and breathcoach (I was also a massage therapist, but I had to quit massages because of an arm injury). And I love combining the two: tv allows me to be creative while seeing many fascinating places and meeting very interesting people. And my practice is my purpose in life: I love helping people take better care of themselves and be as happy and healthy as they can be.
I my free time I love to keep learning (I am doing a Yoga & Ayurveda Teacher Training this year) and I try to help people who are not as lucky as I have been. For example, I have been taking a 100 year old, amazing woman out for lunch or to see a movie every 6 weeks for 9 years now, because she told me she was so lonely. And I have been walking my dogs with and helping an autistic young man from my village with all kinds of things for 6 years. It is a small thing for me to do, but it means the world to them.
How and when did you enter the world of pageantry?
In 1996 I knew absolutely nothing about pageants, haha! I was living and studying in the United States (Atlanta, Georgia). We moved there for my father’s work right after I got my gymnasium diploma. Because my dad was on a 3 year expat contract, I knew I wasn’t going to be able to finish my degree in International Business Management, unless I found a way to get a visa that allowed me to live and work in the US. After all, I couldn’t expect my parents to pay for my tuition, rent and living expenses after they moved back home.
Unfortunately getting a visa for the US is very hard, so after unsuccessfully trying to apply for one the traditional way, a friend of mine (well actually, a male model I was madly in love with in the summer of ’95) suggested I tried modeling. The US have a special visa for models, because models work all over the world.
I was 18 at the time and never in a million years would have considered myself pretty or special enough to be a model. But I was very eager to stay in the US to finish my degree and of course hoping the friend and I would become a couple! So I decided to give it a go.
I made an appointment with his first modeling agency in Atlanta, Michelle Pommier (my friend was living and working for Wilhelmina Agency in New York by that time, shooting editorials and runway shows for Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren) and they loved me for my typical Dutch looks, so after I had lost some weight (I was already thin, but had to become skinny) we started building my portfolio, which I really enjoyed. To my own surprise, getting your hair and make up done and wearing beautiful clothes was quite fun!
But when they hired a lawyer (I was their first international model) to apply for the international modeling visa, they discovered having 10 pages of work as proof that I was a model, was required to get the visa. Of course I wasn’t allowed to work yet in the US, so I took 1 trimester off from college to travel back to The Netherlands to try to find modeling jobs that would get me these 10 pages of work.
In Amsterdam where I had only been once in my life, I traveled from agency to agency by tram or foot, carrying a big map to find the right addresses, as we used to back then. But every agency turned me down! Here my Dutch looks were not considered so special. They all had girls just like me under contract already. So my teenager ego and confidence were crushed a little bit, but at the same time I was having the time of my life discovering the Amsterdam night life. In the US I wasn’t allowed to go to clubs yet (you have to be 21) and with no parents around, this was my chance to be wild and free, haha! The poor family I was staying with for the time being must have been so worried, I realised later.
Anyway, long story short: I didn’t find a modeling job. So I realised I would have to move back to The Netherlands when my parents did, without finishing my study. But at least I had given it a try.
And then.. everything changed! Right before I was going to go back to the US, the family I was staying with pointed out the application form in the Saturday newspaper (De Telegraaf) for the Miss Holland pageant and said ‘Why don’t you give this a try’?. I remember saying ‘Why on earth would I do that, I want to live in the US!’. But then they said the article mentioned Corine Spier from Corine’s Agency was one of the judges (as was Rob Peetoom). The only agency, besides Elite, I hadn’t even bothered to visit, after all the no-s I had already gotten. These 2 were the supermodel agencies in the 90’s, so I figured I’d spare myself the humiliation of another rejection.
But having absolutely nothing to lose, I decided to give it a try. Liliane, my surrogate mom during those months in The Netherlands, shot a whole roll of pictures of me in their backyard. And after we developed them, we chose a picture with their dog Oran (a boxer, so I looked prettier, haha) and I entered the competition. Out of 3400 girls I got to the last 30 and after an interview with Corine herself, I made it to the last 12! And then I won 🙂
There was no tv show in ’96, so the pageant was covered by De Telegraaf. And the winner was chosen by the jury, who each did an interview with a selection of the last 30 girls, and were all present at a photo shoot to see the last 12 girls ‘at work’. And that was it!
I was told I had won over the phone while I was working at a temporary secretary job to kill time, asked to be at home the next day and pretend I didn’t know yet, when Miss Holland ’95 Chantal van Woensel and the Hart van Nederland crew rang my doorbell to tell me I won (again), haha! Not very glamorous, right?
You won the Miss Universe Holland pageant in 1996. What made you stand out of the other participants, that the judges chose you?
The last 12 girls had to do a photo shoot in the lobby of the Van der Valk Hotel at Schiphol Airport that would be printed in the Saturday edition of De Telegraaf to present us to the readers. We had to pretend to be guests in the hotel lobby, each playing a different role. There were cocktail dresses, business suits, casual attire, tennis outfits and bathing suits to choose from.
Before the shoot we all had to pick our own outfits. Of course most of the girls wanted to wear the ‘cool’ outfits, like the cocktail dresses and the business suits. I remember not caring so much what I was wearing, because I wasn’t in it to win it. I just wanted Corine to sign me, so I could get my 10 pages of work and get back to the US as soon as possible!
Afterwards, when I asked the jury why I won, they told me they thought I was the prettiest girl (I don’t agree by the way, as there were many gorgeous girls!). But they also praised me for being the most professional girl, referring to my relaxed attitude regarding choosing the outfit for the shoot (I chose the tennis outfit, that nobody wanted to wear). They appreciated this even more, considering I was the youngest contestant at 19 years old. They thought this made me fit for the tough business I was about to get myself into. Little did they know I didn’t want to win this pageant!
You went to the crazy world of the Miss Universe pageant and the crazy world of Las Vegas. Making memories for a lifetime. Could you tell us some of the memories you treasure and maybe some you rather forget?
There are so many!
When I arrived after a very long journey, feeling very tired, the first thing the organization did was get me to a photo shoot location, where someone did my hair and make up in a way that made me look like someone else (not in a good way), and then they took the picture that was used in the ‘yearbook’. I hate that picture to this day! I found out later I was one of the latest contestants arriving, so they were in a rush to get the last pictures taken.
We all had a crush on Scott, our (gay) choreographer who we worked with every day for 3 weeks to get all of our acts and presentations right for the big show.
Miss USA, Ali Landry, was my roommate. She was allowed to pick her roommate, as the USA pageant and Miss Universe pageant had the same organization (Donald Trump had just become the owner). When she asked the organization which country always delivered nice girls, she was told Miss Holland always had a great personality. So she chose me! We got along great, but were also very different.
I remember her studying for hours every night and getting up very early to get her hair and make up done. She was very determined to win and had been preparing for the Miss Universe and making appearances and working as Miss USA for almost an entire year. I had only been elected Miss Holland 2 weeks prior, so I was not prepared at all and a bit intimidated by all of her efforts to win, but also decided to go with the flow and be myself. I was already having so much fun just being here. And I figured I didn’t stand a chance to win anyway, as most of the girls had been elected many months before and were very well trained and prepared by their countries’ organizations, so I might as well enjoy the ride!
Nowadays a lot of the pageants have inclusivity as an important part of their legacy. The one you saw winning the Miss Universe 1996 pageant was Alicia Machado. She almost had to give up her crown as she had gained weight. The owner of the pageant, the current president of the USA, Donald Trump, demanded she had to lose weight.
What’s your opinion on what happened back then and what’s your opinion on inclusivity in pageants today?
I think it is absolutely ridiculous her weight gain was used in a commercial campaign for weight loss by Donald Trump. What should have been addressed is that this beautiful girl had been drilled to become Miss Venezuela for years (the pageant there is very strict and it takes years of sacrifices for a girl to win it) and most likely hadn’t been able to be herself for a long time. Then she was crowned Miss Universe, after which she had to live in LA and was ‘owned’ by Donald Trump and probably forced to work very hard, while not speaking English at all and being far away from her family and friends. Of course she became lonely and miserable! Which she apparently compensated by eating and gaining weight. But she may have also just not been able to keep up the strict lifestyle regime she had been on for so long. Whatever the reason: I felt really bad for her. Even though I personally didn’t like her very much, as she was not my kind of girl. No one deserves to be treated like that!
Many beauty queens take part in popular TV shows like Robinson and Dance Dance Dance in the Netherlands. What television show would you like to be invited to and why?
None, haha! I am more comfortable behind the camera’s. Which is why I work for tv. I realized this is what I wanted to do professionally, when I was a guest on many tv shows being a (semi) celebrity in ’96. So halfway my year as Miss Holland I started studying again at the university of Amsterdam. I chose Communications, specializing in Media, to pursue this dream. After I graduated I started my first job at Joop van den Ende TV Productions and I have been in the business since 2001. Best decision ever. I love my job! And I love that being Miss Holland, which is something that kind of happened to me by accident, lead me to a career that I have enjoyed so much for almost 25 years now.
There is no Miss Nederland anymore as they say “it’s not of this time anymore” (Niet meer van deze tijd). What is your opinion about that?
I agree. I didn’t even think it was ‘of this time’ back in 1996. Judging women by their looks and idolizing people for being beautiful has always been something that felt a bit unfair to me. Being (considered) beautiful is something that has been given to you. Not something you have accomplished. I was told I am beautiful many times in my life, but I’ve always been very modest about it. Besides, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and is something we all lose eventually, as we grow older. So why get attached to it? Having said this, of course I do see and appreciate beauty in others, as I do in many things, especially nature. I guess this is a natural thing to do for humans. So I’m not sure why I feel this strongly about pageants. I guess being on the receiving end of the appreciation is making me feel more uncomfortable, than the concept itself 😉
On your insta page “Let it Flow”, you post a lot of quotes, what is the favorite quote you live your life by?
That’s easy, although I love many of them, this is my absolute favorite:
‘Create a life you can’t wait to wake up to!’
Life is so short. And so precious. Do what you love and love what you do. If you don’t: change it! Why be miserable in your work, relationship, friendship, living environment of anything else? Of course some things are harder to change than others, but we are capable of so much more than we think if we really want something!
What is your message for the viewers of Miss Holland Now?
I see the beauty in everyone, not just the people who happen to be considered ‘prettier than others’. I invite you to do the same. Look for the beauty in every person you meet and compliment them on it, I’m sure you will make their day. ❤️
Thank you so much Marja! You really took the time to answer our questions! We love the anecdotes about the 1996 Miss Universe. We love how you live your life!
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